Friday, 6 November 2009

To each his own

Swami Gulagulaananda challenged

"It's time to have the greatest discussion now for a face-off... I dare all religious 'experts' to come here and put your thoughts across"

The reason I am writing this article is simple - I recently got some scraps on Orkut from a person who calls himself (montse) Jesus Loves You. And they were some really interesting scraps. They are pasted here as is:

(montse) Jesus:

hi i don't know u, but all i have to say is that Jesus loves you, died for ur sins
believe Jesus for eternity

Nik:

Hi, I don't know you - But I want to tell you that Sri Krishna loves you - Read the Bhagavad Gita and free yourself from the cycle of rebirth. Believe in Him.

(montse) Jesus:

but none died for your sins except Jesus, you should receive your salvation only by believing Jesus as your saviour

Nik:

See, that's where you are wrong - You start off with the assumption that one has to die for someone else's sins. Sri Krishna makes it clear that you can repent for your sins and walk to path of Dharma by accepting Sri Krishna in your heart who didn't have to die (couldn't die) as He was God Himself

(montse) Jesus:

unfortunatley you are wrong, but you cannot realise it, cause the truth been hidden to you and Jesus Christ is the truth,way & the life, the truth'll set you free,
bye friend. hope this's my last message,God Bless you.

(montse) Jesus:

remember Jesus loves you forever none could replace it

Nik:

Think about it logically. If Jesus is the truth, why is he hidden from me? If he wanted me to realise it, he should have come forth. The problem with you is that you think that Jesus is the only one. Sri Krishna never said "Worship ONLY me"

Sri Krishna, in the Gita says that you can attain salvation through many paths - though in the end, it all comes to Him. One of the paths is faith, one is righteousness, Dharma and good behaviour, and so on... So, your belief and faith in Jesus will also take you to Sri Krishna in the end - Continue to believe in Jesus, my friend... Sri Krishna loves you.

Clearly the conversation appears like two people who are saying their religions are nicer. However, if you clearly look at it - This person montse started this discussion. He comes to me saying that Jesus is the only way to heaven. This is one thing that ALWAYS puts me off. These people (He is not the first one to tell me this - remember the priest who played chess?) start their arguments and debates by saying "I am right, Jesus is God, and you are wrong" ... Why? Is it that hard for these people to accept that God is one, and we have different means of reaching Him? Apparently it is very hard for them to accept this - in fact, impossible.

And to top this, this guy's friend comes to me and says that I have to read the Bible to realise why this guy is speaking the truth. This is his message to me, and I quote...
Hi Nik
I saw ure scarp in one of my friend's scrap book.
If you're ready for a healthy debate, then scrap back.
To understand Christianity, you have to read the bible. Then you'll know why man was created and what sin is, how sin was atoned for the Israelites through blood shed of cattles. What happened when God came himself in flesh and died for mankind's sins once and for all. The supreme sacrifice which nobody could do or will do. This is the message of love Christians profess.
Why is there no evidence about Krishna. Krishna is a myth created by a person long back. He is nothing but an idol made of stone/metal.
I am an Indian and believe all religions are important for respective individuals. But I wouldn't agree that religions are same. Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation.
If you truly seek Him, you will find Him. But look for Him earnestly. Read the bible like how you would read any book and try to understand. God will show you the way.
You will understand the prophecies mentioned in the bible and realize how many of them have been fulfilled. You will know how the world is going to end with the second coming of Lord Jesus Christ.
Dear friend, have you ever wondered why missionaries worldwide are ready even to sacrifice their lives..it is to spread the good news - the message of love to all the world. No other religion has this message.
If God has given you the intelligence then search for the true living God.

Obviously a Christian believer will ask me to believe what he believes - But what puts me off is his insulting the God we believe in., which is ridiculous. Have you ever wondered what will happen if the ONE thing that you have been believing all your life, turns out to be false? That's what happens to people who shut their eyes, and simply follow what is being told to them like blind sheep. The Church said that the earth was flat, and that the sun is revolving around the earth. So I guess we have to believe it now, because the "Church" told me and ask the scientists who send expensive equipment to space to go to hell (clearly they are wasting precious resources since the church has already told us)

All these people who keep asking me to read the Bible have never once read the Bhagavad Gita or the Vedas themselves... Why? The reason is because - Hey, the Bible is right. Why go elsewhere? Why can't they accept the fact that maybe others are already satisfied with what have? To each his own... I believe in Krishna and you believe in Jesus - So make peace with it. Don't go around saying that those who don't believe in Jesus are heretics and will go to hell - That's your belief which you are entitled to have, but don't enforce it on others. These are the kinds of arguments that often trigger violence in India which believes in Secularism. And this concept of secularism is clearly not entering the minds of people who blindly argue without being rational, open or logical. If you look around, you will not see a single Hindu who says "Worship only Krishna" including me. But you will see scores of people (two in this post and one chess-playing priest) who ask others to get converted. Shame on you.

The way in which these people argue with confidence is like they actually have seen or understood. What makes matters worse is that these people are not even scholars and continue to argue like they know it all. They don't know the size and depth of the Vedas - everything from metaphysics to nuclear technology has been mentioned in the various Hindu scriptures. But we don't go around flaunting it. The time has come for Hindus to become more vocal - We will NOT take this kind of crap from anyone who speaks without knowledge. First read all Hindu scriptures and then talk. To talk with ignorance is something all of us can do - I can talk about rocket science or genetic engineering!

If you have any comments to make - do post them here. Let us have a healthy debate. Remember, I am not saying I am better or that you are not. I reiterate "To each his own". I am saying this because a debate should always consider that the other person is correct, and then logically and conclusively prove them to be wrong. Not saying in the beginning - I am right, you are wrong, problem solved. So, only mature people are allowed to participate in this debate

Comments are moderated. Any kind of abusive or insulting statements will be discarded.

14 comments:

Schezerade said...

well a healthy debate is a bit of a misnomer considering its the clash of two major religions. The Bible has a line which goes " Jesus is the only way to salvation" . The bhagvad gita has a different approach. Now the individual doctrines of both are distinctly different , while one is inclusive , the other excludes other paths of salvation excepting its. Hence its hard for any christian to actually truly understand the concept of hinduism. Plus, the ten commandments which form a really intricate part of christianity has the second commandment as " Thou shalt not have any other gods before me". Having said that , it was really reckless of montse to actually say that Krishna was just an idol. To summarise to each his own makes perfect sense

Nik said...

Thank you Schezerade... Your analysis is logical. To each his own is the way it should be, or perhaps these people should choose to follow "Universal Unitarianism". But to put down other people by insulting them thus, is not the way of civilised and cultured people

karthik said...

i've not read bhagwat gita nor have i read any other religious scriptures.A person who truly believes there's some one(jesus,allah,krishna,rama,etc) who writes/decides our fate will never ridicule other person just because he prays/looks up to a particular god.Its like -"only people going through this route will be allowed to enter a city/country and there are no other routes"

Bipin Kumar said...

Nik, really a nice blog. liked it. am truly amazed to kno dat ppl like montse exist very much among us [ i must say luck is all urs bud, u got a chance to interact wid one of em!! lol ] he might ve read d bible 100 times, but he's still not enlightened., very much blind n deaf.. wel, not dumb though! unfortunately (for him), he couldn't convince u to get converted and he ended up scrappin u his last msg. lol

to cover up d failure, a new guy comes in and starts to preach u agen. gosh!
i wz struck wid a question, wen he sayz, "Dear friend, have you ever wondered why missionaries worldwide are ready even to sacrifice their lives.." wat d hell r these jehadis (terrosits) doin den? isn't it d same? so, difference between terroists and missionaries is...., NOTHING!! rather dan wat d book sayz, dey cling on to preach their own stupid thoughts. come on, no holy book sayz "die to spread love"

as d sayin goes, "most of us neva grow up, but our age does", its time these ppl grow up n start THINKING. jus to satisfy their mere selfish interests dey can't take d name of religion., its absurd.

i liked "church" example d most. its truly hilarious. ill refer dis blog to to others. [thumbs up] its kewl buddy!

Bipin Kumar said...

Nik, really a nice blog. liked it. am truly amazed to kno dat ppl like montse exist very much among us [ i must say luck is all urs bud, u got a chance to interact wid one of em!! lol ] he might ve read d bible 100 times, but he's still not enlightened., very much blind n deaf.. wel, not dumb though! unfortunately (for him), he couldn't convince u to get converted and he ended up scrappin u his last msg. lol

to cover up d failure, a new guy comes in and starts to preach u agen. gosh!
i wz struck wid a question, wen he sayz, "Dear friend, have you ever wondered why missionaries worldwide are ready even to sacrifice their lives.." wat d hell r these jehadis (terrosits) doin den? isn't it d same? so, difference between terroists and missionaries is...., NOTHING!! rather dan wat d book sayz, dey cling on to preach their own stupid thoughts. come on, no holy book sayz "die to spread love"

as d sayin goes, "most of us neva grow up, but our age does", its time these ppl grow up n start THINKING. jus to satisfy their mere selfish interests dey can't take d name of religion., its absurd.

i liked "church" example d most. its truly hilarious. ill refer dis blog to to others. [thumbs up] its kewl buddy!

Abhishek Jain ( AB baby) said...

Therse is no GOD..so stop fighting over this issue...

Better take up some other issue..

Show me god...Either Lord Krishna or Jesus or Allah or Lord Mahaveera..

n dnt give me comments like..u can feel air, feel pain but cant see it..similarly u can feel god...u cant see it...Bullshit..

VTU question..100 marks

Prove God Exists...

Nik said...

It's simple really. Let me give you a small example. I am sure being a scientific person, you believe in Evolution. However, if you have read a bit of Neural Networks and related subjects, you will see that you (as in human) can design systems that are capable of thinking, improving and improvising themselves. Self learning networks are the current rage.

However, consider the case where extremely small organisms have complex body parts. They could not have developed it themselves by trial and error. Trial and error and improving oneself is possible for when the changes are small and continuous (delta changes). However, radical changes cannot happen via evolution (You can do research - there has been no radical change in evolution, just a series of gradual changes).

There are several other reasons. So I will actually write an entry about why I believe in the existence of God.

Sandesh R K said...

I really don't understand why people make such a big mess propagating their religion like this. Though I haven't read Bible or the Gita completely, I have read the essence of both. I have also read about the teachings from many other religions also. Having read a bit of them, I vouch that all of them will ask us to follow the path of Dharma (virtue) and nothing else. No religion teaches the followers to convert others. Lord Sri Krishna clearly says "See me in every being". Then why should we differentiate between people belonging to different sects when the Lord himself doesn't.I have visited temples, churches, Gurudwaras. But there God never told me "I am not going to bless you because I am not your God" or never did He forsake me from entering in. I think that we will really make justice to our religion by following the principles that are given in it rather than propagating it and trying to convert others.

Schezerade said...

I express deep dissatisfaction with the idea that missionaries are equal to jehadis which in itself is a misnomer. The Jehadis were warriors who took up arms in support of their faith. They had a strict code of honour akin to that of knights . They would harm no woman and no child. Nor would they harm an innocent civilian . The terrorists violate each and ever tenet of their code. Moreover a holy war (jihad) could only be declared when a true authority on the Kuran said so. This was done in the Middle Ages last. Osama is hardly an authority on the holy Quran else he would not have chosen the path he currently is on. Calling jehadis as terrorists ( irrespective of what the media would have you believe) is an insult to Islam. And missionaries have hardly gone on blood thirsty rampages to call them terrorists. True, they can be and most of the times are a nuisance repeating the same lines all over again .But lets not compare them to terrorists

Abhishek Jain ( AB baby) said...

@ NIK
Please dont assume anything...already there are so many false assumptions.
You believe in god's existence,tht doesnt prove god exist.( I m not here to hurt anyone).
I still believe that Veerapan exist..It doesnt mean Veerapn really exist now..
And if god created such things?? thn why so many mistakes in creating..?? Y some ppl are blessed with all the things..and some ppl dnt evn get food,, cant see word..Its obvioulsy cos of trial n erros happend..so cos of such trial n error, these people with error occure..!!

Nik said...

@Bhothra - That is the reason I said I will devote an entire article for it. Writing much in this small comment box is quite annoying, and I lose track of what I want to say. I will get back at you quite soon - please keep an eye out for it.

Vikas Rawat said...

@AB Imagine a situation where a father is teaching his son to ride a cycle. Now when the son falls, a good father will obviously pick him up and make sure he is alright, but a wiser father shall let it be. Because it is only then that the son will learn what NOT to do.
This may not exactly be the brightest of examples, but just consider this analogy.
God is the wisest father and human is a child, not always smart but learning. We learn from our mistakes and that is why God lets us be.

Bipin Kumar said...

@ Schezerade, i didn't mean to hurt anybody's feelings. well, i am extremely sorry if i have done so unknowingly.

wat am tryin to say is, if these terrorists claim themselves to be jehadis, den wat r ppl like montse claiming to be? [missionaries?] does the bible say "christianity is the best religion in the world"? and "everbody SHOULD BE CONVERTED to christians"? i haven't read the bible, but can i say it surely dat der can't be written anythin like dat.

i didnt mean the true meaning of the words "jehadis" or "missionaries" wen i said so. i meant the manipulated version of dem., atlest some or dem ve done so!

all these current days' jehadis n missionaries r a bunch of idiots who try to prove der senselessness jus to satisfy der mere ego. the world shall neva be wonderful until n unles ppl like these change themselves and try to understand wat life n love is all abt!

Tushar Kapila said...

Christians saying there is only one God is fine - let them believe, a few years back most believed the earth was flat. closer in history when we made cars and planes if we could foresee the future would we have "believed" and used them so freely.

But what gets my goat is when some Christian missionaries put down other religions in illogical ways and bribe people to change religions. seen some graphic and disturbing videos on you tube.

but the important thing is some, most are normal everyday people.

on a more spiritual level